Regarding the naval range rules

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schmid3		#21	[-]
Posts: 1398 (July 4, 2009 11:26 AM) France More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Francis does have a point. Both sides need to have all the details about this "compromise". All that is being said is that forces around Formosa are exempt. What exactly does that mean? TA forces can only reach Formosa? Where in Formosa? They can only reach the Formosa area? What does that mean? I think it would be really wise to make sure both sides understand exactly what this compromise entails, or this issue might comeback with a vengence in a turn or two.
perspixx		#22	[-]
Posts: 4248 (July 4, 2009 12:14 PM) Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone Kill it with fire! More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There is no controversy. No exception is being made for the Triple Alliance-Japan war. The Triple Alliance players assumed that the rule change would prevent them from operating around Formosa. It will not, nor will it stop them from expanding their war in the future. Naval bases provide ammunition, maintenance, crew replacements and tactical infrastructure that aren't available at civilian ports. Warships must start and end their turn at a naval base, but during a turn they may take on coal at pretty much any friendly port. These rules are clearly necessary and have been since the start of the game when the previous Japanese player told me that he wanted to invade Peru and San Francisco.
perspixx		#23	[-]
Posts: 4249 (July 4, 2009 12:31 PM) Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone Kill it with fire! More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	First off, to start with, I interpreted the rules fairly closely to the way they are now specified as evidenced by conversations I have had with various players about how badly I could hurt Germany and vice versa . I assumed the ranges were a bit more than they are but still. I have assumed that even to get into the Pacific Germany has had to secretly reach agreements with France or Great Britain or Spain to use their ports to get into the Pacific. Perhaps this is not the case, perhaps it is. It is not. Between Italy's Mediterranean and Somalian ports, they were able to move in non-combat readiness to Jakarta without difficulty. Secondly. I agree with Frank that the implementation of the new rules might be sort of inconvenient and unfair considering the war we are engaged in. The timing was really bad. It had to be done sometime, and during this week-off between turns because of the holiday seemed like the best time. If I had waited until you finished your war there could be another war starting before then and I'd have to wait even longer? No. So anyway Im not sure how I feel at this point other than totally resenting the semblance of back door dealings and smoke filled rooms between the Admin and Germany. Again, Im not accusing anyone, but at this point I need to know what the heck going on. No back-door dealings here. When I'm on AIM, it is to answer player's questions about distance, game mechanics, etc. I don't reveal anything about other nations like naval base locations, troop locations, or anything that would require funded espionage missions to discover; but I do answer a lot of questions, especially from Germany. If you contacted me on AIM, you'd have the same opportunities to ask questions and receive answers. Japan's ability to attack Tsingtao was never in doubt, because it's 700 miles from Kure. Their ability to operate in full force around Formosa is unquestioned as well, as they can take on coal at any of the island's ports, not just Taipei.
King Francis		#24	[-]
Posts: 351 (July 4, 2009 8:52 PM) Austria-Hungary More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Dylan, and I, believe this situation resolved. You don't need to know how I got to the Pacific, nor do you need to know how I'll be waging the war now because of these rule changes. These explanations you're not supposed to know." How freakin sweet, but the issue isnt resolved until I understand as clearly whats going on as everyone else does. If there were no compromises what would prompt the German player to say there have been ? Such comments like the following make no sense based on the explanation I have been given. "The compromise that has been reached is that this isn't being grandfathered. The war will conduct under these rules, except concerning Formosa, where my fleet before could reach but under these rules couldn't. By doing this, it allows me to continue to operate there. Dylan has solved this situation, there is no rewinding." No compromise ? I don't understand this situation at all. I have understood the range rules since day 1, why is it that the German player is incapable of calculating the distance between two points on a map? If the German player cant reach Formosa from Batavia, how the heck did he reach the Pacific from the Baltic? I still dont get whats going on, or why or what the problem is nor how its been resolved. And the German players hostile and confrontational tone does not make matters any better. If he can only reach Formosa then I assume he must capture the island or a Chinese Port nearby before he can progress farther? "What I know and you don't, and thus ask Dylan questions concerning that, is relevant only to me. The facts that they may perhaps be about you may not make you happy, but there are, once again, things I know that you are not, at this moment, privy to. Thus, you won't be getting any transparency. You will not know what's been said, or when." Im sorry German player, but if there are loopholes or exceptions to the rules as they concern this Pacific War then I and every other player has as much right to know them as you and your triple alliance. Again Im not accusing Perx of conspiring against me, or assisting the German player in any inappropriate way or of anything childish and as unprofessional as that, I just dont feel this whole situation is as clear to me, or the community as a whole , as it needs to be. The night approaches, darkness on Mt. Ogura where the deer cry out and in their voices calling is it autumn on the wane?
perspixx		#25	[-]
Posts: 4250 (July 4, 2009 9:43 PM) Master of Karate and Friendship for Everyone Kill it with fire! More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If the German player cant reach Formosa from Batavia, how the heck did he reach the Pacific from the Baltic? I already explained this. If you'd like, I can draw a map for you next week. Im sorry German player, but if there are loopholes or exceptions to the rules as they concern this Pacific War then I and every other player has as much right to know them as you and your triple alliance. For the last time, there is no loophole or exception being granted to the Triple Alliance. Just know that they have access to a port within 1,000 miles of Formosa which they can use to conduct combat operations in the area.
Kara Stormcloud		#26	[-]
Posts: 51 (July 4, 2009 10:19 PM) United Kingdom More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Based on this information of the Triple Alliance using a "friendly" base within 1,000 miles, the "friendly" port must be either a port within the Philippines curtesy of Spain, a friendly Chinese port, which would be understandable considering the circumstances or in exteme southern Korea. According to the aid listed in the rules, the extreme southern most portion of Formosa is 1,273.811 miles as the crow flies, which rules out any of the Dutch ports. I considered Bangkok, but it is over 1,400 miles as the crow flies and that is cutting across Vietnam, which a ship cannot do. The French could just barely provide a coaling port at Hai Phong, Vietnam at 883.599 miles. Manila, Philippines is reachable easily at 557.991 I had thought perhaps Hong Kong but it is not listed as a British possession on the Gloria maps, if it an omission then it is at a range of 393.266. Likewise the Portuguese "Hong Kong" of Macau is just across the the bay from Hong Kong and would be curtesy of another NPC nation, like China and Korea. I would hope that if any nation but China is the base of operations that there would be an annoucement of this fact...it would just be fair.
Frankenfur		#27	[-]
Posts: 277 (July 4, 2009 10:55 PM) Germany More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The problem with what you just did, Kara, was you gave him a list of possible ports and things that I could be using. Francis' inability to understand that the rules are operable, or on that matter his inability to understand anything in this thread is his own fault. We do not need to provide him with information and insight into how I am conducting this war. He doesn't need to know if I have to move through Formosa, or if I have other targets I can hit from where I am located. Giving him that information, or possibilities, was not good sportsmanship. I'll request that all other insightful comments like that be done in private. The law governing fatal antagonisms reads: Reconciliation is out of the question. Only one side can win, and it must win totally. - Robert Greene Your enemy wishes you ill. There is nothing they want more than to eliminate you. If, in your struggles, you stop halfway or even three quarters of the way, out of mercy or hope of reconciliation, you only make them more determined, more embittered, and they will someday take revenge. They may act friendly for the time being, but this is only because you have defeated them. They have no choice but to bide their time. The solution: Have no mercy. Crush your enemies totally as they would crush you. Ultimately, the only peace and security you can hope for from your enemies is their disappearance. - Robert Greene
King Francis		#28	[-]
Posts: 353 (July 4, 2009 11:36 PM) Austria-Hungary More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Lol. Don't get onto Kara German player. So far you've been as easy to predict as a yoke of oxen and nearly as easy to play as a pawnshop guitar. I am fairly well aware of where you can go and how because I can figure out the distance between points. :P Lol The night approaches, darkness on Mt. Ogura where the deer cry out and in their voices calling is it autumn on the wane?
Kara Stormcloud		#29	[-]
Posts: 52 (July 4, 2009 11:52 PM) United Kingdom More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I, like everyone else not directly involved is sitting on the sidelines and watching. I cannot speak for the rest of us in that category, but each of us must assume at some time if we try to project naval forces, we need to know how they work. Using the exmaple before us to undertsand that is just common sense. I am sorry if it ruffles your feathers or you consider me a poor sport for postulating in public but that is my right to do so. Do you mean to imply if I sent you a PM of this you would validate my work and confirm my solutions? I really doubt you would. So this is the perfect forum for such conjecture.
Ulo988		#30	[-]
Posts: 989 (July 5, 2009 12:40 AM) Japan More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Seriously people, let's take a chill pill and grow up. Stop referring to Frankenfur as "German player" as it sounds really stupid and immature. Just play the game. For christ's sake, this forum is starting to look more and more like superpower classic and if we can't all act sensibly then I have plenty of other hobbies to occupy what spare time I have. And Kara, not to pick a bone but it probably would have been more appropriate to PM Dylan about your naval base concerns. You certainly do have the ability to post those possibilities in this public thread, but that doesn't mean you should have. "We live together, we act on, and react to, one another; but always and in all circumstances we are by ourselves. The martyrs go hand in hand into the arena; they are crucified alone. Embraced, the lovers desperately try to fuse their insulated ecstasies into a single self-transcendence; in vain. By its very nature every embodied spirit is doomed to suffer and enjoy in solitude. Sensations, feelings, insights, fancies - all these are private and, except through symbols and at second hand, incommunicable. We can pool information about experiences, but never the experiences themselves. From family to nation, every human group is a society of island universes." -Aldous Huxley

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Regarding the naval range rules